Do you know your mediums CEC????

Discussion in 'Advanced Techniques' started by feral, May 29, 2010.

  1. feral Experienced Stoner

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    CEC, what the hell is that I hear you say!
    I't something you really need to know if your serious about growing.
    It means cation exchange capacity. None the wiser?
    CEC refers a mediums ability to exchange cations between organic matter and the plants roots.

    Hang in there there's more but it's worth it.

    Cations are positively charged elements such as calcium, magnesium and potassium.
    Cations are held by negatively charged particles called "colloids". The defining feature of colloids is that the particles are small and consequently the total surface area is huge. For this reason the negatively charged colloids are capable of holding enormous quantities of positively charged cations.

    As plant roots uptake cations, other cations in the nutrient replace them on the colloid.
    If there is a concentration of one particular cation in the medium, other cations will force them off the colloid and take their place.
    Thanks to my mate G. Low for the info and for confusing us! lol.

    In laymans terms it means the mediums ability to hold, release and replace nutrients.

    I know mine. What's yours?Think about this as it is an extremely important part of growing. Getting nutrients to your plants is important in my view.
    A lot of medium mixes will NEVER give you the maximum out of your grow.
    Why? because of their CEC. They simply can't release and hold nutrients as well as other mediums.
    Now you don't know me if you have to ask which medium has the highest CEC.
    This is a small part of plant mechanics and well worth knowing. If you don't know how it works, you've got a battle in front of you.
    Hmmm, might have to do a thread on that unless someone else wants to explain how a plant works.
    Never seen a thread on plant mechanics come to think of it. All trying to do it and don't really know how it works.
  2. HYDRO Just Your Average Stoner

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    In nft,we utilise Capillary matting,much faster,whats your thoughts on spreader matting nft style?
    NFT is quicker and allows the plants to feed when they like.
    Coco is good but straight nft provides larger blooms in less time.

    peace.;smoke
  3. GRRAYT STONER

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    Great info feral...even a dumbass like myself can understand that. Thanks for the technical and laymans versions...haha.

    Good point HYDRO
    I've grown in TurboTanks for about 5 years and in my opinion I think nft is great and does have remarkable growth, though it didn't like me growing mofo big plants in it because of the size of the root mass and the associated problems including oxygen starvation. I also don't like that you can't isolate each plant for whatever reason, unless of course you have a set-up for each plant(which is ok with just a few, but not when you want to do 10). If something happens to one plant it more than likely happens to them all..putting all the eggs in one basket so to speak. I also found them more demanding as a set-up and less forgiving if you made a mistake or were inattentive. Just my experience.
  4. DTRave420 Active Member

    Cool
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    So you guys are sayin' that a proper "grow medium" is not a Psychic or Clarivoyant cannabis grower who can predict the future???:eek: I'm so confused...
    I'm gonna take another hit and try to grasp this...;bonghit
  5. feral Experienced Stoner

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    "Coco is good but straight nft provides larger blooms in less time."

    I totally disagree with that statment. You have it the wrong way about.
    Plant mechanics dictate a far better result in coco and my experience tells me that too. I take it you've not tried a coco substrate saying that? Science is on coco's side, not personal preference.


    I too used turbo tanks for years untill I tried 1 plant in coco.
    GRRAYT makes a very good point on the oxygen levels. I struggled with it for years. Their great for smaller plants and cloning though.

    What we're trying to get across is if you have a medium that you know holds and releases nutrients, you have control. What you put in gets to the plant.
    If you have a "special" mix of your own you really don't know what nutrients it's capable of holding and releasing. Just because you have certain nutrients in the solution doesn't mean they get to the plant. Heard of blockout?

    They all work but to what extent do you want it too?
    Me? I want the max!!!!!
  6. HYDRO Just Your Average Stoner

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    Yes ive used coco,still do on occascion!

    Have you used cappillary matting??

    There is no medium as the matting provides the plants with all they need,they can actually take up food faster!

    Its been tried and proven time and time again,coco is relativly new,but dosent compare to nft yeilds.
    Seems like someone needs to check it out.
    Taking the medium out takes alot of the problems with,straight nft will win every time.The plants are given exactly what they need,so...
    Why aint nasa useing coco?
    Heard of it but prevention is the key.
    Nutrient Film Technic is the best way to grow,plants love it.

    G,clones do much better,seeds have to big a rootmass to benifit from this style.

    peace,love an thc!
  7. feral Experienced Stoner

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    Have you used cappillary matting??

    Only for 7 years.

    I have a very good friend that owns a business that relies on nft and he HAS to sell coco too now?

    I NEVER say use coco. You can make up your own mind what you want do
    I DO say use sound growing principles and both the systems have that. As to what extent is the question.
    I started growing indoors about 1978 and have been throught the lot, and then some, and have come up with a method that suites me.
    I like NFT but it has trouble supporting large plant mailny due to the oxygen levels.
    It has a lot more things that can go wrong too.

    This thread is about how nutrients get to the root system. How you choose to deliver those nutrients is up to you, the grower.
    There are pros and cons to all systems. But if you understand how it works you can chose which way yourself in an informed manner.
    But do get a grasp of what your trying to do and why it does it.
    Nutrient block-out affects all of us. Understand WHY it happens and you'll have trouble free growing.
  8. Osprey Solid.

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    This is wonderful stuff, it'll give me a change to exercise the ol' google machine! The more specific the information the better!
  9. HYDRO Just Your Average Stoner

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    Yes ive used it for years,and managed to prevent lockout,ok!
    Btw,lockout is quicker cured in nft.
    My post is on point,or not?
    Capillary matting is a medium,I never said dont use coco or coco aint as good now did I?
    The less things to go wrong the better,some have better sucess than others,coco after nft dont make sense,it wont increase my yeild,so..
    Coco is great in its own right,indeed.
    Trouble free,go nft!
    I really aint bothered,the choices are there.Some suit some some dont,spreader matting is better,direct uptake,its all about which nutes,etc.
    Its the best way for max yeild in min time,in mine and many others book.

    peace!:)
  10. feral Experienced Stoner

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    "Btw,lockout is quicker cured in nft".

    Could you please explain how and why?

    NFT is on the way out, I wonder why? I get at least 40% more out of my substrate and NO disasters.
    I can assure you there are many more things that can go wrong in NFT. There's no buffer for a start. Power goes off and how about your pumps? Temps come to mind too.

    At the end of the day I suppose if you get the result your happy with, grow how you like. Just remember those sound growing principles.
  11. sanclem I have grand kids older

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    flood and drain

    The good old flood and drain system.
    I have used it for over 20 years with a computer driven system .468 G/W/M
    Relayrunner printer port relay Windows
    The nice thing is I have a check sum system, and run off the internet with my I- touch.
    I use mag drive pumps only.
    Light, pumps, vent, co2 injection,tank filling etc Note gravity tank only one pump needed.
    A computer chart recorder, as a checker, if anything failure its on the strip chart
    Pump -1 on Pump -2 onm, vent on,tank fill, temp, Rh running signal
    One system failure computer battery and power went out at the same time
    Problem solved battery back up of the computer
    One mag drive pump failure , chart showed a missing fill signal.
    Problem solved each year replace pump.
    I love it , anyplace there is a wi-fi I can check the system out.
    The plants are on a vidieo recorder and can see on the internet

    Just think if Al Gore had not invented the internet, I would be lost.
    I love the hands on feeling, from any motel or hotel CA to Mi , FL to WA
    Hell its fun to talk to a nark at the airport and look at your system.
  12. HYDRO Just Your Average Stoner

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    Word!
    I hope your well.
    peace.
  13. HYDRO Just Your Average Stoner

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    Re: flood and drain


    Sound,glad to hear your on top of things,maybe you could check out my Wireless growrooms thread,tell me what you think.:family:
    peace.
  14. feral Experienced Stoner

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    Hi sanclem, remember me?? lol. I bet you freaked out when overgrow went belly up!
    How about a grow log with this "nasa" system?
  15. jimmi69 R.I.P Simoncelli

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    great post good info cheers yu lot :thumbsup:

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