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Torog · 11-29-2008, 04:28 PM

In the Belly Of the Beast
Personal Liberty ^| Nov 21st, 2008 | Bob Livingston

The Christian faith is the only religion that cannot be manipulated in favor of one worldism or universalism sometimes called the New World Order.

This is precisely why the world system and its political leaders hate, despise and persecute Christianity.

I hasten to explain that all the phony Christian fronts, televangelists and world evangelists are not Christians, but very much a part of the worldly system of antichrist.

All religions are collectivist religions except Christianity, which is an individual and individualist faith. Governments want and must have collectivism under some name whether it be democracy or communism.

Collectivism is a certain means of social, economic and religious control.

Politicians regularly espouse individualism, human liberty and democracy at the same time. Impossible! Individualism and human liberty are opposite to democracy and any other form of collectivism.

The collectivist mentality or the mass collective mind is the spirit of the New World Order. The collectivist man cannot oppose tyranny because he is himself tyranny. He is the reality of the supreme welfare state in its conspiracy of the ages to manipulate humanity against itself.

Collectivism is the foundation of the New World Order. It is supreme and total deception. It is completion of the tower of Babel. It is the conclusion and finished man without the spirit of Christ.

The collectivist mentality lures mankind into guidance from â€œhigher authoritiesâ€ (government). The crowd wants prepackaged truth and human freedom from government authority instead of using their own consciousness for making decisions and determining their own actions.

Hence, they are easily deceived and manipulated under some altruistic nonsense. Collective man wants the external authority of government instead of the spirit and mind of Christ. The animal farm is that world arena wherein man collectively surrenders himself, his personal being, his ego to collective and obedient faith in government authority.

Itâ€™s all very simple. A crowd can be manipulated into an altered state of consciousness (Hitlerâ€™s torchlight parades) finally evolving into a growing attitude of docility, whereas an individualistic person cannot be manipulated so easily. The state always considers that a self-sufficient and independent thinker is a threat to collectivism and its deception of the masses.

Thus, the Christian takes on the being and Spirit of Christ. His total allegiance is to The Living God. He will not sacrifice himself for â€œthe common goodâ€ or â€œhigher causes.â€ He cannot be manipulated by the State.

The welfare state must absolutely keep the people from the individualistic tendency of thinking for themselves.

Government parasites extract their wealth, power and pomp from mass deception based upon altruistic sacrifices of the workers and producers of wealth. Their greatest fear is that this will be revealed.
Human liberty is of God, not a privilege of the state. Letâ€™s put on the whole Armor of God!

Torog · 11-29-2008, 04:31 PM

Howdy Y'all,

Every since Bush Sr talked about a New World Order,it's been bugging me,this article helps to explain why I should be wary of such.

Have a good one ...

halffoot · 11-29-2008, 04:48 PM

So what exactly do you think is the problem with democracy?

Torog · 11-29-2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halffoot

So what exactly do you think is the problem with democracy?

Howdy halffoot,

That's a good question and I'm not sure how to answer it,the author seems to believe that the problem is the imposing or promoting of collectivism where individuality and individual thoughts,are suppressed.

I'm certainly open to yer interpretation of what it means and look forward to yer answer.

Have a good one ...

halffoot · 11-29-2008, 05:17 PM

I'm struggling to try to think of a good way to frame this... I think it would help if you explain how you think democratic government suppresses individualism and individual thought, and maybe propose a better system that you think is the solution.

I will say however, that i think the author of this article is an enemy of freedom, not an ally. By mixing his condemnations of democracy and truly centralized government with his proposition that Christianity is the one true religion, he suggests to me that if he were to have his way, we would live in a christian dominated dictatorship. The problem with theocracy is it leaves no freedom to believe anything different from that religion, and isn't THAT suppressing individualism and individual thought?

Torog · 11-29-2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halffoot

I'm struggling to try to think of a good way to frame this... I think it would help if you explain how you think democratic government suppresses individualism and individual thought, and maybe propose a better system that you think is the solution.

I will say however, that i think the author of this article is an enemy of freedom, not an ally. By mixing his condemnations of democracy and truly centralized government with his proposition that Christianity is the one true religion, he suggests to me that if he were to have his way, we would live in a christian dominated dictatorship. The problem with theocracy is it leaves no freedom to believe anything different from that religion, and isn't THAT suppressing individualism and individual thought?

Howdy halffoot,

Well dang..I have to go run and some errands,so I'll git back to ya on this.

Have a good one ...

TexasToker · 11-29-2008, 05:50 PM

Although I do not support Christianity for other reasons, I do understand what you're saying about why other nations despise christianity.

Hmm.
NWO, eh?
Scary stuff.

SkullsFB · 11-29-2008, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torog

This is precisely why the world system and its political leaders hate, despise and persecute Christianity.

I almost hate to respond here because I don't necessarily want to get in a discussion about this but I couldn't leave this alone.

They ARE NOT "hate, despise and persecute Christianity" because the social control mechanism is so powerful within this faith. Christianity does not teach the individual how to think for them selves. Free though is the scariest thing to organized religion and government, this is why Christianity is the political vehicle of choice for most politicians.

Torog · 11-30-2008, 01:12 PM

Howdy halffoot,

I went to wiki and found the definition for collectivism:

Collectivism is a term used to describe any moral, political, or social outlook, that stresses human interdependence and the importance of a collective, rather than the importance of separate individuals. Collectivists focus on community and society, and seek to give priority to group goals over individual goals.[1][2] The philosophical underpinnings of collectivism are for some related to holism or organicism - the view that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts/pieces. Specifically, a society as a whole can be seen as having more meaning or value than the separate individuals that make up that society. [3] Collectivism is widely seen as being opposed to individualism. Notably these views are sometimes combined in systems.

Collectivism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now then,one thing I git tired of hearing and it is a myth in regards to non-Catholic Christians(and I suspect,Catholics too),and that is,that individual thought is not encouraged,when in fact-it's all about an individual,voluntary choice to become a Christian and from that point on,individually assess one's adherence to Christian beliefs and values,on a daily basis.

I urge you to read the rest of the page at wiki,it explains alot of why the author of the article,is denouncing collectivism,as well as collectivist democracy.

After reading this article,I now understand why the goverment might classify me as a super-Christian domestic terrorist,and the reason is that my primary allegiance is to God and Jesus Christ.

Have a good one ...

Gandalf · 12-03-2008, 05:39 PM

Seems that the central theme of the article here is how only Christianity supports individual, personal spirituallity, while every single other religion does the opposite. I could go into endless hours arguing this, especially for the case of traditional Buddhism, but the author is showing some pretty blatant ignorance. The question that comes to my mind: has he actually studied, in depth, all the other religions he purports to discredit? Buddhism, Taoism, Shamanism, undoubtedly many others I'm not aware of; these are all highly personalized faiths that encourage personal exploration, awakening from the conditioning of society and environment, and seeing an unobstructed, unconditioned view of reality.

Torog, if you want to take spiritual fulfillment from your Christian faith, then more power to ya. But don't even bother trying to tell the rest of us that our beliefs are fake, that our spiritual mentors are all frauds, that only your all-mighty religion is true and right, when you clearly know diddly-squat about all the other systems that you make blanket statements about. Yes, I know this isn't your article, but you certaintly love to post these with a smug sense of superiority.

Btw, since you've been staying loyal to Biblical teachings in your anti-homosexual bigotry, don't you think you should be raising your voice in favor of slavery, polygamy, child-abuse, genocide, and killing those who work on the Sabbath? Can't pick and choose now!

SkullsFB · 12-04-2008, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gandalf

Seems that the central theme of the article here is how only Christianity supports individual, personal spirituallity, while every single other religion does the opposite. I could go into endless hours arguing this, especially for the case of traditional Buddhism, but the author is showing some pretty blatant ignorance. The question that comes to my mind: has he actually studied, in depth, all the other religions he purports to discredit? Buddhism, Taoism, Shamanism, undoubtedly many others I'm not aware of; these are all highly personalized faiths that encourage personal exploration, awakening from the conditioning of society and environment, and seeing an unobstructed, unconditioned view of reality.

Torog, if you want to take spiritual fulfillment from your Christian faith, then more power to ya. But don't even bother trying to tell the rest of us that our beliefs are fake, that our spiritual mentors are all frauds, that only your all-mighty religion is true and right, when you clearly know diddly-squat about all the other systems that you make blanket statements about. Yes, I know this isn't your article, but you certaintly love to post these with a smug sense of superiority.

Btw, since you've been staying loyal to Biblical teachings in your anti-homosexual bigotry, don't you think you should be raising your voice in favor of slavery, polygamy, child-abuse, genocide, and killing those who work on the Sabbath? Can't pick and choose now!

Thank you for articulating that so well. Some good Karma is coming your way.

Torog · 12-04-2008, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gandalf

Seems that the central theme of the article here is how only Christianity supports individual, personal spirituallity, while every single other religion does the opposite. I could go into endless hours arguing this, especially for the case of traditional Buddhism, but the author is showing some pretty blatant ignorance. The question that comes to my mind: has he actually studied, in depth, all the other religions he purports to discredit? Buddhism, Taoism, Shamanism, undoubtedly many others I'm not aware of; these are all highly personalized faiths that encourage personal exploration, awakening from the conditioning of society and environment, and seeing an unobstructed, unconditioned view of reality.

Torog, if you want to take spiritual fulfillment from your Christian faith, then more power to ya. But don't even bother trying to tell the rest of us that our beliefs are fake, that our spiritual mentors are all frauds, that only your all-mighty religion is true and right, when you clearly know diddly-squat about all the other systems that you make blanket statements about. Yes, I know this isn't your article, but you certaintly love to post these with a smug sense of superiority.

Btw, since you've been staying loyal to Biblical teachings in your anti-homosexual bigotry, don't you think you should be raising your voice in favor of slavery, polygamy, child-abuse, genocide, and killing those who work on the Sabbath? Can't pick and choose now!

Howdy Gandalf,

Perhaps yer right,perhaps the author should do a thorough analysis of the other religions that ya mentioned,before claiming that Christianity is the only one to support individual spirituality. Personally,I haven't studied the other faiths much,because when I git to the part where ya have to bow down to Bhuddha,that's where I draw the line. I do not have any Crosses on my walls or pictures of Jesus Christ,that I bow down to,before ya accuse me of doing such..and the most ritualistic thing I did in Church,was to take Communion.

Like it or not,I'm not the only Christian stoner here..some of what I post,is for their education and information and I don't blame em for not participating in a thread,when they see how I git ganged-up on.

As for raising my voice in favor of the things ya mentioned,I do at times,when the muslims do such to Christians and other faiths,I raise my voice in condemnation and out-rage. As we speak,there are Christians and other faiths,being held as slaves by muslims,I'm totally against polygamy,but muslims ain't,I'm totally against child abuse,but other faiths abuse their children,genocide at the hands of muslims,is one of their most cherished tenets of their faith,I certainly have never been instructed to kill anyone who works on the Sabbath. Christianity has reformed itself of it's violent ways and no longer uses force or coercion,to convert anyone to Christianity,it is strictly voluntary.

Have a good one ...

Gandalf · 12-04-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torog

Howdy Gandalf,

Perhaps yer right,perhaps the author should do a thorough analysis of the other religions that ya mentioned,before claiming that Christianity is the only one to support individual spirituality. Personally,I haven't studied the other faiths much,because when I git to the part where ya have to bow down to Bhuddha,that's where I draw the line. I do not have any Crosses on my walls or pictures of Jesus Christ,that I bow down to,before ya accuse me of doing such..and the most ritualistic thing I did in Church,was to take Communion.

Like it or not,I'm not the only Christian stoner here..some of what I post,is for their education and information and I don't blame em for not participating in a thread,when they see how I git ganged-up on.

As for raising my voice in favor of the things ya mentioned,I do at times,when the muslims do such to Christians and other faiths,I raise my voice in condemnation and out-rage. As we speak,there are Christians and other faiths,being held as slaves by muslims,I'm totally against polygamy,but muslims ain't,I'm totally against child abuse,but other faiths abuse their children,genocide at the hands of muslims,is one of their most cherished tenets of their faith,I certainly have never been instructed to kill anyone who works on the Sabbath. Christianity has reformed itself of it's violent ways and no longer uses force or coercion,to convert anyone to Christianity,it is strictly voluntary.

Have a good one ...

Well I gotta hand it to ya Torog, at least you know how to coherently atriculate an argument; seems not many people do that on the web these days.

So if Christianity can reform itself to move past the violence, abuse, polygamy ect; why not move toward tolerance of homosexuals? The only reason I've seen for being against them, is the fact that the Bible says you should be. If two men or two women want to have sexual relations, how's that hurt the rest of us? You might argue that it's unatural for not involving procreation, which I would argue against, but then shouldn't we also be calling to outlaw masturbation, contraception, and infertile marriages?

But if Christianity can't move past that, because it would be ignoring the word of God, why is it okay to ignore the word of God on the other aforementioned things? You mention Islamic preachers supporting genocide, slavery, child abuse and so forth, and I agree that those are barbaric practices - and Christianity has certainly evolved beyond these things - but as you said, this is what's being taught right now, not what actually reflects the Bible. How can you revere some parts of the Bible, ignore others, and claim Christianity is superior only because you changed to be as such?

As for worshipping Buddha, you are mistaken about that. "Buddha" isn't his actual name, it's only a title that means "enlightened one". Maybe some sects worship him now, but by and large, Buddhism teaches that we all have the Buddha within us and that the first Buddha, Sidhartha Guatama, is only there to teach us the path to enlightenment that he discovered; he is not more or less holy than anybody, and absolutely not to be worshipped. There are actually many Christian Buddhists out there today, because Buddhism is a philosophy that makes no assertions for or against God, it is only concerned with ending suffering in this reality down on Earth. I would think being a full-fledged Buddhist, acting only with kindness and compassion for all life, would be just fine with God, as that is how he wants us to act anyway.

And sorry if you feel ganged up on, but I and lots of other people here get mighty frustrated and offended when you keep referring to everybody as immoral degenerates just because we don't live by your way, even though we're good people. I'm an atheist, and logic is my moral compass; I believe that the world is best off with peace and cooperation, and so I do my best to be the change I want to see in the world. I also have had 1 gay friend in the past, and currently have one bi-sexual friend, and they are both very good people who don't deserve to be constantly put down, especially with false-accusations about their "homosexual agenda" that neither of them have.

Torog · 12-05-2008, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gandalf

Well I gotta hand it to ya Torog, at least you know how to coherently atriculate an argument; seems not many people do that on the web these days.

So if Christianity can reform itself to move past the violence, abuse, polygamy ect; why not move toward tolerance of homosexuals? The only reason I've seen for being against them, is the fact that the Bible says you should be. If two men or two women want to have sexual relations, how's that hurt the rest of us? You might argue that it's unatural for not involving procreation, which I would argue against, but then shouldn't we also be calling to outlaw masturbation, contraception, and infertile marriages?

But if Christianity can't move past that, because it would be ignoring the word of God, why is it okay to ignore the word of God on the other aforementioned things? You mention Islamic preachers supporting genocide, slavery, child abuse and so forth, and I agree that those are barbaric practices - and Christianity has certainly evolved beyond these things - but as you said, this is what's being taught right now, not what actually reflects the Bible. How can you revere some parts of the Bible, ignore others, and claim Christianity is superior only because you changed to be as such?

As for worshipping Buddha, you are mistaken about that. "Buddha" isn't his actual name, it's only a title that means "enlightened one". Maybe some sects worship him now, but by and large, Buddhism teaches that we all have the Buddha within us and that the first Buddha, Sidhartha Guatama, is only there to teach us the path to enlightenment that he discovered; he is not more or less holy than anybody, and absolutely not to be worshipped. There are actually many Christian Buddhists out there today, because Buddhism is a philosophy that makes no assertions for or against God, it is only concerned with ending suffering in this reality down on Earth. I would think being a full-fledged Buddhist, acting only with kindness and compassion for all life, would be just fine with God, as that is how he wants us to act anyway.

And sorry if you feel ganged up on, but I and lots of other people here get mighty frustrated and offended when you keep referring to everybody as immoral degenerates just because we don't live by your way, even though we're good people. I'm an atheist, and logic is my moral compass; I believe that the world is best off with peace and cooperation, and so I do my best to be the change I want to see in the world. I also have had 1 gay friend in the past, and currently have one bi-sexual friend, and they are both very good people who don't deserve to be constantly put down, especially with false-accusations about their "homosexual agenda" that neither of them have.

Howdy Gandalf,

Thanx for yer kind words in regards to coherent articulation of an argument.

You ask a good question: how does Christianity become more tolerant of homosexuals ?

After all,they're God's children too and should be treated accordingly..Christians understand that they're to love the sinner and hate the sin,so we're supposed to try and help them to cope with their lifestyle and guide them back to the role that God created for every member of a heterosexually reproducing species. If sexual relations are kept behind closed-doors,with no children standing outside those doors,listening,I don't see where that would hurt,but infidelity is a big part of the homosexual world and that leads to the transmission of std's and aids,and if done in public places,it attracts prostitutes and drug dealers and all of the crime that goes along with that.

In regards to Budha,I saw a Survivor show where the Buudhists required visitors to kneel in respect before entering the temple,a Christian lady refused to kneel and was not allowed inside. Whether or not,the statue is worshipped,doesn't matter,it's the act of bowing down before a statue,that is wrong for Christians to do. Doesn't Buddhism believe that every person is a deity unto themselves ? That we're all little gods ?

As for being ganged-up on,I'm used to that,I just wish that it wouldn't cause folks to keep from joining in a thread,which I suspect that it does more times than not. I'll admit,that I do offend folks way too much,but I see myself as being in a Culture war and there will be casualties along the way..someone has to stand up for the values that made America the greatest country in the history of Man - because from where I sit,modern liberalism and moral relativism,is threatening to tear all of it down.

Btw,I'm happy that you strive to make the world a better place,and I'm also glad that homosexuals haven't organized enough to reach out to yer mild-mannered homosexual friends and demand that they join the militant homosexual agenda.

Have a good one ...

undertheice · 12-05-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torog

Whether or not,the statue is worshiped doesn't matter, it's the act of bowing down before a statue that is wrong for Christians to do.

i've never been able to understand why so many christians seem to be unable to differentiate between worship and respect. it would seem a simple matter, that worship is within the heart and a show of respect is nothing more than an acknowledgment of the traditions of others. i've never been numbered among the faithful, but when i am in the homes of others i respect their traditions. i'm willing to join hands around the table and remain silent while others give thanks to their lord for the repast, i go to great pains to give no insult as they go about their archaic genuflections and never even allow the slightest sneer to cross my face as they praise their imaginary benefactor. why is it a christian should find it so hard to show the same respect to his hosts? are y'all afraid your god may misunderstand your actions and smite you just for the hell of it or are you just so damn xenophobic that you would rather give insult than abide any seemingly pagan action?

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In the Belly Of the Beast

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