New Church Sins and possible Impacts on Society

spaced06 · 04-28-2008, 09:30 PM

Well, you could consider that the plant contains a drug that was put there by nature, or God. Drugs agen't bad, what makes them bad is our relation with them. Cocaine is necessary for the survival of peruvian indigenous, because up there in the Andes there's not as much oxygen as down here, so they need it to get energy. It's the same with weed, it being good or bad depends on what you use it for.
Besides, drug is a scientific term, there are scientific proofs that certain things containing sertain substances hace a certain range of effects on you.
So, basically we're all opposing different aspects of the same thing, they are both true:
Marihuana is a drug, but it's also somthing placed there by nature, that isn't bad in itself.

I'm not sure that made any sense, I'm baked.

halffoot · 04-28-2008, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torog

Well I tell ya what..if it is my sincerely held,religious belief,then it must be honored under the First Amendment. I'm starting to think that you think I'm being "pretentious",for daring to believe in God and His Son,Jesus Christ..is that so ?

Wow, just when I thought your argument couldn't lose any more weight, you play the freedom of religion card. The first amendment protects you from congress making any laws abridging your religious rights, so as I am in no way affiliated with congress, I have every right to tell you where I think you can put your religious beliefs(thats that whole freedom of speech thing). Also, religious belief is no defense in regular conversation for believing ridiculous things. If one of my friends told me that it was their sincere religious belief that clouds are made of cotton candy, I'd slap them and tell them to stop being such a silly fuck.

Thats all irrelevant though, since this has nothing to do with religion anyway, it has to do with chemistry and pharmacology, which you clearly have no understanding of or else you wouldn't hold the ridiculous position that you do. Marijuana is a drug because it fits into the definition of a drug, if you're too dense to understand that, then by all means feel free to practice your self delusion and tell yourself your not a 'drug user' your just a nice friendly horticulturist with red eyes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torog

Ain't nobody gonna git me to call a plant a drug,if you want to let someone tell ya what to call things,that's up to you.

And you're not going to get anyone to say marijuana's not a drug. Also, meet my friend logical paradox, because if I just now 'saw the light' and switched to your side, then I'd be letting YOU tell me what to call things, which, given the shaky nature of pretty much every claim you make, sounds like a terrible idea.

PigSnout · 04-28-2008, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halffoot

I would be hard pressed not to slap you if I were that police officer, even if I held the views on marijuana I do currently. You just come off sounding like a pretentious ass when you say something like that. You know what the officer means, and you try to make it seem like you're not lieing on a technicality. . . whatever helps you sleep at night man.

I see a little Red Foreman in you.

Wesley_Pipes · 04-29-2008, 12:35 AM

this is from your definition Torog...

A chemical substance, such as a narcotic or hallucinogen, that affects the central nervous system, causing changes in behavior and often addiction.
Obsolete. A chemical or dye.

and an excert from wiki's definition of THC...

Tetrahydrocannabinol, also known as THC, Δ9-THC, Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol), Δ1-tetrahydrocannabinol (using an older numbering scheme), or dronabinol, is the main psychoactive substance found in the Cannabis plant.

i believe by YOUR definition that would make THC a chemical substance that affects the brain and alters the state of mind... or in other words, a drug

Peace

Einstein2v · 09-16-2008, 10:32 PM

Lets think logically people... Your god is your sun. Your life is your earth. Your plant is your friend. Thats just the icing on the cake.

Now to religion. That was made up. Obviously. Stop with the spiritual thinking and start with critical thinking. Thats why you have zombies on this earth that have no critical thinking skills. Most of your scientists this day in age do not live in a spiritual world. They think very critically and bare the question of "why are we here?" in a totally different way. Now I am not saying its bad to think spiritually, but the point is you have to use both. The problem that lies today is people simply do not do that. I give my hat to the man who created a religious criteria. It has been going on for thousands of years. That's it though! We have been around for much longer.

Religion has also caused a lot of problems. Wars, racism, hatred, death, and so on. Most people do not look at those problems because it is consumed as a good thing. If you can't see these issues then your life is a blur. Personally religion to me is for the weak minded.

I was born a catholic myself. I have further let my self free of religion. Around the age of 8. I see death as a good thing. I try to fear nothing, and know that we are all here in the same boat.

This might piss some people off but I wont worry. Or this might help some people. Still wont worry. Its the question that hurts not the answer.

Torog · 09-17-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Einstein2v

Lets think logically people... Your god is your sun. Your life is your earth. Your plant is your friend. Thats just the icing on the cake.

Now to religion. That was made up. Obviously. Stop with the spiritual thinking and start with critical thinking. Thats why you have zombies on this earth that have no critical thinking skills. Most of your scientists this day in age do not live in a spiritual world. They think very critically and bare the question of "why are we here?" in a totally different way. Now I am not saying its bad to think spiritually, but the point is you have to use both. The problem that lies today is people simply do not do that. I give my hat to the man who created a religious criteria. It has been going on for thousands of years. That's it though! We have been around for much longer.

Religion has also caused a lot of problems. Wars, racism, hatred, death, and so on. Most people do not look at those problems because it is consumed as a good thing. If you can't see these issues then your life is a blur. Personally religion to me is for the weak minded.

I was born a catholic myself. I have further let my self free of religion. Around the age of 8. I see death as a good thing. I try to fear nothing, and know that we are all here in the same boat.

This might piss some people off but I wont worry. Or this might help some people. Still wont worry. Its the question that hurts not the answer.

Howdy Einstein2v,

If you possess critical thinking skills,perhaps you'd be more accuarate if you said that"people have used religion to justify their acts against others..",placing the blame where it's due..on each individual's head..rather than lettin em off by blaming religion.

Do you really believe that there's no critical thinking involved with spiritual thinking ? Perhaps yer equating spirituality with religion only,when in fact-there's much spirituality outside of religion..?

I just find it sad that some stoners tell other stoners that basically they're foolish for embracing the spiritual world and that we really should just limit ourselves to a 2 dimensional world of existance,when in fact..humans should be multi-dimensional beings.

Has modern liberalism killed the spiritual side of the 'hippie' revolution ?

Have a good one ...

JohnDoeRadio · 09-17-2008, 02:12 PM

T, come one, stoners are the last to not embrace the spiritual world.

but im sure you meant the spiritual world of organized religion. and yes there are a few people, not just stoners who believe in a higher energy but dont buy into the mass religion, church, and all that goes with it.

it is not a bad thing t, dont get me wrong, to have those foundations in peoples lives, but sometimes that foundation is laid with less than superior intetentions.

one thing i remeber from bible school, is a story of just that, a foundation. we were given a picture through words to think about. to imagine two houses next to a river. one had no foundation, and was built with piss poor planning and less than desired materials. the other was built with all the needs of a proper, strong and healthy way to survive some of the worst situations life could throw at it. granted it took longer to save, and alot more dedication to creating a worthwhile plan. but in the end, the house with the solid foundation stood when the foold came through.

this story, and a few other very small innocent ones have stuck with me through my life, and it has been a glorious thing to think about. to make a long connection and story short, i valued this time spent learning and building better values, connecting with the people in the community, at least the time i spent in church. church to some people is just that, a place for the community to turn to and accept each other, and help it grow in moral strength. through generations since the beginning of "community worship" to them this is the only way to get the community together and accomplish the togetherness that makes a civilization strong. its still very prevelant today, and is it wrong?! only when used in an unjust way, and only when the power to lead people and be trusted is torn down. then it becomes a target.

still others have other spiritual quests they must delve into. and none are any more wrong, or right than the other. until you stand at the feet of your maker and he tells you what it is you lived for, and what your purpose for thinking higher thoughts is, until this happens, who is to say what quest is any more valuable than the other. acceptance is a great common ground, and something that branches from an idea to an action, and is easily spread by the simple observation of a gracious act.

all in all, where im getting... a olid foundation is built with multiple materials, all of which youve learned to be tried and true. a mixture of thoughts and ideas that came down to a better existance and a better understanding of how to build our world around us. why should i not use one material over another, when the world doesnt stop with any one of them?

Torog · 09-17-2008, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnDoeRadio

T, come one, stoners are the last to not embrace the spiritual world.

but im sure you meant the spiritual world of organized religion. and yes there are a few people, not just stoners who believe in a higher energy but dont buy into the mass religion, church, and all that goes with it.

it is not a bad thing t, dont get me wrong, to have those foundations in peoples lives, but sometimes that foundation is laid with less than superior intetentions.

one thing i remeber from bible school, is a story of just that, a foundation. we were given a picture through words to think about. to imagine two houses next to a river. one had no foundation, and was built with piss poor planning and less than desired materials. the other was built with all the needs of a proper, strong and healthy way to survive some of the worst situations life could throw at it. granted it took longer to save, and alot more dedication to creating a worthwhile plan. but in the end, the house with the solid foundation stood when the foold came through.

this story, and a few other very small innocent ones have stuck with me through my life, and it has been a glorious thing to think about. to make a long connection and story short, i valued this time spent learning and building better values, connecting with the people in the community, at least the time i spent in church. church to some people is just that, a place for the community to turn to and accept each other, and help it grow in moral strength. through generations since the beginning of "community worship" to them this is the only way to get the community together and accomplish the togetherness that makes a civilization strong. its still very prevelant today, and is it wrong?! only when used in an unjust way, and only when the power to lead people and be trusted is torn down. then it becomes a target.

still others have other spiritual quests they must delve into. and none are any more wrong, or right than the other. until you stand at the feet of your maker and he tells you what it is you lived for, and what your purpose for thinking higher thoughts is, until this happens, who is to say what quest is any more valuable than the other. acceptance is a great common ground, and something that branches from an idea to an action, and is easily spread by the simple observation of a gracious act.

all in all, where im getting... a olid foundation is built with multiple materials, all of which youve learned to be tried and true. a mixture of thoughts and ideas that came down to a better existance and a better understanding of how to build our world around us. why should i not use one material over another, when the world doesnt stop with any one of them?

Howdy JDR,

Actually,I wasn't alluding to a spiritual world of organized religion,I was referring to the soul..which I believe,every human has a soul..folks like Einstein2v would have us cut off our souls and cast them aside and wallow around in a sad and depressing physical state,no better than a worm.

I would think that stoners would be amongst the first to embrace spirituality,not the last. When I first started takin 'cid,it wasn't just for the physical effects,it was also to connect me with my spirit in a way that I could not connect to,previously..and 'cid delivered that and more. Even Timothy Leary said that 'cid was the 'key' to unlocking minds that have been closed. Marijuana does much the same thing..it un-binds that which was bound..our minds can soar to new heights of connectiveness with the Universe and our Creator. This is one of the reasons that I coined the term, 'cannabinauts'.

Sadly,many have built their 'houses' on sand..I blame moral relativism and modern liberalism,for much of that. Casting aside moral absolutes for the sake of change,any change..is asking for troubles.

Have a good one ...

Einstein2v · 09-17-2008, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torog

Howdy JDR,

Actually,I wasn't alluding to a spiritual world of organized religion,I was referring to the soul..which I believe,every human has a soul..folks like Einstein2v would have us cut off our souls and cast them aside and wallow around in a sad and depressing physical state,no better than a worm.

I would think that stoners would be amongst the first to embrace spirituality,not the last. When I first started takin 'cid,it wasn't just for the physical effects,it was also to connect me with my spirit in a way that I could not connect to,previously..and 'cid delivered that and more. Even Timothy Leary said that 'cid was the 'key' to unlocking minds that have been closed. Marijuana does much the same thing..it un-binds that which was bound..our minds can soar to new heights of connectiveness with the Universe and our Creator. This is one of the reasons that I coined the term, 'cannabinauts'.

Sadly,many have built their 'houses' on sand..I blame moral relativism and modern liberalism,for much of that. Casting aside moral absolutes for the sake of change,any change..is asking for troubles.

Have a good one ...

Well... now you are talking about souls. I never said we didn't have a soul. I am saying religion is for the weak minded and it is very young. It is to get everyone to come together. Its a control. I don't need that in my life. I control myself. The mind is so amazing. I believe you misunderstood what i said. Quote me if you would like, Ill explain it for you.

The spiritual world of organized religion is your mind. As far as critical thinking, thats the science of earth. These are facts. If you want to get beyond that you might say... who is anyone to say whats a fact. Then you can go to other life forms and say they gave us our technology. Its an interesting world.

Bottom line, IMO living in a religion based world isnt going to please me. If you must know about me, i live a very spiritual mind. Thats a huge reason i smoke with our friend marijuana. Like i said before, I believe the sun is our soul purpose of living and the earth is what we adapted to, and everything on this planet including us, is our friend. Its really sad that it doesnt end up that way because of other parts in the equation. Ruthless people letting greed take over. Money being invented. Wars... you name it. Aside of that i have no reason to really disagree with you but i hope you understand what i say. If you criticize me, i said before it wont bother me.

heartguy · 09-17-2008, 11:27 PM

I was born and raised roman catholic, went to catholic schools for 12 years. A priest tried to abuse me when i was in second grade. The priests that did molest childern were just moved from parish to parish, molesting more childern at each place, all the while it was known to their pastors and bishops.
I give you that there are some good catholics and priests, but the bad ones far outweigh the goods ones. I have no respect for the catholic church one bit. I was told at 7 that the meat i ate in my sandwich was going to send me to hell. What a terrible thing to say to a 7 year old. I just hope all those bad priests and catholics end up in hell for what they've done. All religions are self perpetuating , money hungry organisations. They use fear and intimidation to "control" their flock.
I will never be controled by any church again. I have a strong belief in God, and have talked to god when i died for over 10 minutes. More people have been killed in the name of religion than any other reason.
I believe religion has caused way more harm than good.

heart

DGC1982 · 09-18-2008, 12:00 AM

Somehow this thread was changed to a debate on whether or not pot is a drug, but I'm going to revert back to the original post by Wes.

The new Vatican laws are a perfect example of how "god's word" has been rewritten several times throughout the course of time. No religion has it 100% right, and for that reason I do not let christianity consume my life. I try to be a good person, and help people when I can. I don't cheat on my wife,murder people, or abuse people. Although I sometimes think about it. Some believe that thoughts are sins but not me. If you act on those impulses then I believe you are sinning. Now to look at each individual sin...

Environmental pollution - This one is just plain stupid. You sin in your car everyday on the way to work. I think not. Bad for the evironment yes. A sin No.

Genetic manipulation - Depends on what we are manipulating. Good cannabis is a result of genetic manipulation. Now if it's cloning cows for beef then that is a sin! Frankly it scares the shit out of me.

Accumulating excessive wealth - Okay.... are we taking 5 figures or 6 figures? What exactly is excessive? It doesn't matter the whole thing just reeks of B.S. This is what I call a controlling sin. We don't want you to become wealthy, however we the church are excluded from the law and are accepting donations.

Inflicting poverty - This contradicts accumulating excessive wealth. If we cant be rich and we cant be poor then I guess we should all strive for mediocrity

Drug trafficking and consumption - Here is another controller designed to keep drugs off of the streets.

Morally debatable experiments - This one is shifty and vague. It depends on what you consider moral.

Violation of fundamental rights of human nature - This seems to be the only one I can kinda see, and that means that the entire U.S government is going to hell

This was not an attack on Catholics or Catholicism. It's just my rational.

Sin on sinners

New Church Sins and possible Impacts on Society

Spirituality and Philosophy